vS Data Reaper Podcast: Episode 4

This episode takes on a different form as ZachO and Hat discuss the dynamics of the post-Twin Slice rework meta. Demon Hunter is still on top and Warrior is not far behind – and there has been a growing conversation on social media about the state of the game, including a long post from Zach himself. We have a constructive discussion about how we got here, what we think the problems are, and what the future of the game could look like with players and devs working together.


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  1. Twin slice’s nerf – which they call a “rework” – hasn’t changed anything in the state of the game. As the community expected Aggro DH to be weaker, more players opted for decks like druid and hunter. The result of that is that DH seems actually better now, after it has been “nerfed”, as the meta adjusted itself to a configuration that benefits it. Right now, DH is slightly better than Warrior, and those two classes are way better than anything else.

    The argument behind calling it a rework, and not a nerf, is that the readjustment of mana cost made Altruis harder to proc. But, on the other hand, Twin Slice is now 2 damage, and not just 1. So the damage lost in the combo is just ingrained in the card right now. So DH lost a combo, but actually gained more late-game damage range, because Twin Slice is like Eviscerate now, offering 4 damage for 2 mana.

    As for Hunter, Highlander Hunter is performing well under false assumptions that Aggro DH is bad. As the community realizes that Aggro DH is still good, Highlander Hunter will encounter its nemesis more often and fall back to being a Tier 2 deck.

    Lots of Hearthstone influencers said that buffing other classes is better than nerfing DH. VS dudes argue that we can look for cards in Hearthstone’s past that could challenge the consistency of DH’s early game. Almost all of the cards discussed were pretty annoying in its time, like “Muster for Battle”. The implications of that would be a severe power creep of early game, if all the other classes were buffed to compete against DH. A better solution might be to nerf DH’s late game consistence. In this way, control decks could challenge DH.

    Warrior is pretty good, but it doesn’t feel as OP as DH. DH can deny opponents of early game presence and late game stablizing. Warrior occasionally frustrates players with Bomb Wrangler and Risky Snapper/Armorsmith turns. Warrior might be TOO consistent too, but it doesn’t feel as opressive as Aggro DH.

    They reiterate Firebat’s assertion that it feels bad to play other classes right now. When you make other classes’s decks, you know that at least half the cards ain’t improving the deck enough to compete against Warrior and DH’s consistency. As though, it feels bad to draw these relatively subpar cards. And most of your winning will be results of good drawing and RNG, and so, they don’t feel as ACHIEVEMENTS, but strikes of luck.

    The next set of cards, so, has been put in a rough spot. It can be a low-power expansion, like Rastakhan. Or it can be something like Saviors of Uldum, absurdly powerful. In both cases, we can expect bad reactions from the community: the low-power expansion wouldn’t change what is bad about HS right now, and the high-power expansion would be too meta-defining in themselves, making players feel that the meta was pre-designed for them.

  2. Can someone make a tl;dl ? Some of us aren’t fluent enough in English to understand someone talking. I can understand something written, but guys, you speak too fast for someone whose English isn’t native!

    Ps : hello fluent English in two weeks ads!

  3. Really insightful discussion guys. I absolutely agree that demon hunter needs changes if it’s going to be an enjoyable part of the meta game right now, let alone in future expansions. The points you made about the low lethality of non DH classes makes a lot of sense and isn’t something I ever hear people talking about. Looking forward to the next podcast!

  4. Apple Podcast!!!

    Might as well take this time to say thanks for all you guys have done for the Hearthstone community. The VS Report is the only (somewhat) regular thing I look forward to every week in any form of media.

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